SPIKE JONZE & CHARLIE KAUFMAN
Is there much in the film that's true?
CHARLIE: I wrote the screenplay and the way it plays out in terms of my decision to put myself in the screenplay is pretty close to the truth - and the reason I took this job. Charlie Kaufman's story of taking the job and becoming frustrated and deciding to put himself in the screenplay is true.
You don't really look like Nicolas Cage's 'Charlie.'
CHARLIE: I wanted to write a character that was insecure and who had specific insecurities. Since no one knows who I am, I took the liberty of making them up and not being the specific ones that I suffer from. It gave me more freedom to do it.
Can you talk about selecting Nicolas Cage? Did you look at other actors?
SPIKE: We talked about a lot of people and read with people. It took a while to let go of the idea that I was casting somebody to play Charlie and get [it] in my mind that we were casting someone to play his part in the script. That took a little while. Also to find somebody who could play both of those characters, who are subtlety different.
Nicolas has the qualities of being very self-loathing and getting worked up and anxious. He also has the qualities of being able to put those aside and be a goofball and loose. Those qualities, besides loving him in other movies, made us realize [he was the one].
Did Nicolas Cage imitate your mannerisms?
CHARLIE: I'm not sure I see him doing me. I'm told there are moments in the movie where other people see him doing me, but I don't see myself so clearly.
SPIKE: Nicolas studied him. It was the case with all the actors who played real people, our intention was to take what was useful from the real people and create the characters that were in the script. The line is a little blurred as to how much Nicolas took.
Did you shoot each of Cage's characters separately?
SPIKE: No. It would have been a lot easier but we'd have to shoot the location out. To stay focused on a scene, it seemed better to focus on that scene. We'd start with the close-ups of Charlie or Donald then come out and work our way to the two-shots with either a composite or split screen, then we'd walk away and have him switch as Donald. Then once we had the Donald, we'd shoot Donald's close-ups. If it was a complicated scene, and Nicolas would have to switch back and forth a number of times, by the end of the day, he'd be shorting out.
What was it like to work with Meryl Streep?
SPIKE: That was part of the reason we were excited. There were scenes where Susan Orlean is passive as a journalist, listening, [without] much action. To have someone who could bring those scenes to life... She was somebody who was not precious about, "This is the way I want it. This is the way it is." She was the kind of actor who'd come in and say, "Let's try stuff. Let's discover what we can in a scene." She'd done her homework about what the scene was about, and where the character is coming from going into the scene, and where the character needs to get to by the end of it. But at the same time, [she was] very open.
At first I was kind of nervous. I didn't know how much she did or didn't want direction. Within the first couple of days, she made me relax.
Did you ever get confused when you were writing it or when you were shooting it?
CHARLIE: I got confused when [I was] writing it. Sometimes when we talk about it in editing, every time we move a scene around, we have to sit down with the editor and look at this big board and say, "If we move this here, what does that mean?" Then we have to go through Orlean's story, Laroche's story, Charlie's story, and Donald's story.
Another thing I found after I wrote it was while I was writing it, I was immersed in it and it's easy for me to jump back and forth between the storylines. But a year later when I'm doing a rewrite, I can't remember why I did certain things. I know there's a reason why these two scenes are married but I don't know why. It does get complicated when you're away from it.
Were you more involved than the Charlie in the movie?
CHARLIE: Yeah. My time on the set is the least of my involvement. Most of my time is in pre-production and post-production. I'm on the set occasionally when there's a scene that needs to be changed. But he's directing, they're acting and I'm just standing there. I have other things to do, other writing to do, so I do it.
SPIKE: There are moments where you get lost in the hall of mirrors aspect of it. Part of what makes Charlie's writing work and what we try to stay focused to is all of those things are just a setting for these characters and the stories. When you're in the scene, you have to be aware of the conceptual stuff. You have to be careful of the characters and where they're coming from and what their motivations are to make these decisions. That's why, hopefully, both of those levels of the movie work. Our intention is that they both work.
Can you talk about creating Donald?
CHARLIE: Donald's existence or non-existence is something that we don't want to address because the movie is credited to Charlie and Donald. That is an important element in understanding the movie. What happens in the movie is tied to that fact. To say Donald's a creation of mine is something I don't want to do. We're presenting this movie as written by Charlie and Donald.
Were you nervous that it took a while to hear back from the producer when you turned in what wasn't the assignment you were given?
CHARLIE: I was terrified. I was a bit relieved that I had gotten it done. At least I turned in a first draft but I wanted to alter the process. I wanted to quit. I did not want to finish this. I couldn't face it. I didn't feel like that was an option. I felt like I had to stick with it.
Was there any concern about the shots you take at Hollywood? Being a studio film, they might not have welcome what you wrote.
CHARLIE: I honestly did not think this movie would ever see the light of day. I didn't think this movie was going to get made. Putting myself in the (script) was a really hard thing to do. I wouldn't have done it if I had some distance from it. I wouldn't have set out to do it. And I don't think I would have been able to do it if I thought this movie was going to get made.
Why did you do it?
CHARLIE: I thought it was interesting because that's what I was thinking about. I find I write best when I write what I'm thinking about. What I was thinking about was that I was completely unable to write this script. When I started to think about what that meant, and put myself in there, I started seeing connections between what my story might be and what Orlean's story was, and the idea of adaptation and evolution. It seemed correct even though it was still scary. I remember sitting down one day and thinking, "What I'm I thinking? Where's my energy?" And my energy was on my complete blockage.
Was it weird writing about yourself?
CHARLIE: Yeah. I thought, "Who am I? No one knows who I am. I'm going to put myself in a script and they're going to make a movie of that?" I thought it was completely self-indulgent or at least would be perceived that way. I was being very brutal on myself, which is scary but at the same time exciting because I'm honest and that's a good thing to be.
What did the studio say to you?
SPIKE: They connected to it. They read it and saw that it was true to somebody they related to, in terms of struggling to do something you believe in. They respected that. Their concern was that it was so complicated structurally that it might not work emotionally. That was their biggest concern. They never insisted on any changes to it that would make it something different than what it was supposed to be.
Were those the original sets of "Being John Malkovich?" How hard was it getting those actors?
SPIKE: They were great. We sent the script to Catherine Keener and John Cusack. Cusack wrote us back a funny email. It said something to the effect, "I thank you so much for this part. I'd like to take it. The one question is: I noticed I don't have a line in your movie and most of the movies I've done in the past I'm normally given a line. And normally movies I've done with you in the past I've had quite a few lines." But, nonetheless, he was there.
Has this turned you off to adapting another novel?
CHARLIE: I'd still consider doing it if something comes along. I prefer to do my own stuff right now. I've done a few and [I'll] probably end up doing them again. It's what the studios send to you.
What was it about working on Susan's book, "The Orchid Thief?"
CHARLIE: I didn't know what it was going to be. I just knew I liked the book a lot. Like the character says, "Why can't there be a movie about flowers?" I learned I had no idea how to do a movie about flowers. That was my struggle. I thought Susan Orlean's book was great and I wanted to be true to it. I didn't know how.
What's going on with your next project - "Eternal Sunshine?"
CHARLIE: It's in pre-production. It's going to shoot in January with Jim Carrey, Kate Winslet and Michel Gondry, who directed "Human Nature."
A guy finds out that his girlfriend has had this procedure done. She's had him erased from her memory. He doesn't want to live alone with the memory of their relationship so he decides to have the same procedure. From there on, the movie pretty much takes place in his mind. She's being erased memory by memory. At first, he's happy that this is happening. Then he realizes halfway through he can't stand losing her and he tries to stop them from erasing it.
Why do you like that subject of being in the mind?
CHARLIE: I'm in my mind a lot. I live there.
