Filmmakers Keith Fulton and Louis Pepe were given unlimited access to the pre-production and abbreviated filming of "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote," director Terry Gilliam's personal version of the classic Miguel de Cervantes tale. Their cameras rolled as Gilliam's ambition to bring Quixote to the screen came crashing down amidst an atmosphere of failing finances, the unexpected illness of the lead actor, Jean Rochefort, torrential rainstorms, and flyovers by NATO fighter planes.
Fulton and Pepe's documentary, "Lost in La Mancha," showcases Terry Gilliam and his passion for a film that has yet to be completed. This very intimate look at the filmmaking process shows a side of moviemaking that's never truly been captured on film before in such detail.
In this exclusive interview with Keith Fulton and Louis Pepe, the two talented filmmakers discuss the Don Quixote curse, working with Gilliam, and offer a glimpse of the complex process of making a feature-length documentary:
"The Hamster Factor" was the first project you did with director Terry Gilliam. How did your collaboration with Gilliam get started?
LOUIS PEPE: We were graduate students in a film program at Temple University in Philadelphia. Terry had come to Philadephia to shoot "12 Monkeys" in 1995 and was looking for some film students who wanted to do a documentary about it, so that was how we got the gig.
It was as simple as that? How many students were you competing against?
KEITH FULTON: I don't really know but I don't think there were that many. Terry reviewed a bunch of different people's work. We had made a couple of really quirky documentaries and I think Terry liked our sensibilities. The stuff we had done before was full of black humor, the black humorous take on life, more than anything else.
LOUIS PEPE: It's probably safe to say that we had the weirdest material. Between my documentary about people's emotional responses to running over animals, and Keith's documentary about Philadelphia's community of competing Benjamin Franklin impersonators, I think we probably caught his eye.
Had your relationship with Terry Gilliam changed drastically by the time you began working on "Lost in La Mancha?"
KEITH FULTON: We had spent a lot of casual social time with him. We'd been to his house and met his family. We'd had many meals together. Certainly it had changed. It became more intimate and more like the relationship of peers as opposed to when we started "The Hamster Factor." We were definitely kind of wide-eyed and looking up to Terry [at that time]. Definitely there was a balance shift and a new dynamic.
LOUIS PEPE: I think also we had a greater intimacy, which provided for a certain amount of access that we were able to get in "Lost in La Mancha" that just isn't in "The Hamster Factor."
KEITH FULTON: Just based on the nature of the relationship.
LOUIS PEPE: He was already comfortable with our presence. I think the other thing was that we were able to see him more as a sort of fragile human being than as this auteur up on a pedestal, which certainly informs the whole tone of the film.
Did that relationship make it even harder for you to watch as Gilliam's film fell apart?
KEITH FULTON: Absolutely. It was really difficult to see something that Terry had been wanting to do for so long just fall apart around him. For us, it was a double-edge sword. On the one hand, you know this is going to make a really fascinating documentary. On the other hand, you know that his failure is becoming your success in a way. Again, if it weren't for the nature of our relationship with Terry it would be a lot more difficult. But Terry is very supportive of what we do and he's very supportive of the story that we chose to tell.
Did Terry's cooperation in allowing you access ever diminish as filming got more stressful?
LOUIS PEPE:No. There were a few meetings that we weren't able to get into, but they were never because of Terry. It was always because the room was too small or Terry really couldn't have us in the room when the insurance adjusters were there discussing the fate of the film. But personally, Terry never said, "No, you have to leave now."
Did you encounter any difficulties getting access to the actors in Gilliam's film?
LOUIS PEPE: Terry really paved the way ahead of time. Because we had made this previous film, people were able to watch our work and have a sense of what kind of film we were going to make. Everybody knew that it was going to be a 'warts and all' documentary. They also knew that we had a good sense of humor and a certain set of ethics that they could feel safe with.
Do you think Gilliam's "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote" will ever be completed?
LOUIS PEPE: It's a hard question. I know that Terry still wants to make it and he probably will never give up on trying to make it. Whether it can ever be made, there are so many factors - the biggest one is can he get it financed again? Unfortunately, I don't think that financiers are the romantics that audience members are. He will definitely have a hard time trying to put the money together for it.
Do you believe in the Don Quixote curse?
KEITH FULTON: I believe in it after "Lost in La Mancha." There's enough evidence going on there. There have been some versions of Don Quixote that have gotten made but if you actually read the novel, the last paragraph of the novel Cervantes places the curse; it's quite clearly there. He was basically saying, "Don Quixote is my character and don't touch him. Let his moldering bones lie in the grave." I think the curse is pretty clear.
Was there anything you wanted to include in "Lost in La Mancha" but were precluded from because of the length of the documentary or due to financial/legal matters?
KEITH FULTON: When we first watched all the footage, we had come up with a list of about 20 scenes that we thought were going to be the 20 key scenes in the film. By the time we were finished editing, 19 of them made up the basic structure of the film. Basically everything we wanted in there is in there.
What happened to the 20th scene?
KEITH FULTON: The 20th scene was a scene with Terry and his composer, who had actually come on to this project pretty early on for a composer. It turned out not to be relevant. It had more of a kind of "Making Of" feel about it and it didn't fit the story.
Was there ever an opportunity to help Gilliam with his film? Would you have crossed the line and helped him if you could have?
KEITH FULTON: Quite literally, besides [the day of the storm], there was no help we could provide. We're not financiers or producers or agents or anything like that - or lawyers - that were necessary to help.
LOUIS PEPE: I think the existence of the documentary is our contribution in that it's the best use of our skills in coping with the situations that came up for them.
While putting together "Lost in La Mancha," could you point to any one moment of filming "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote" that could be labeled as the breaking point?
LOUIS PEPE: I think early on in the editing process it was clear that the moment that Terry's face no longer has a smile on it, and that he's no longer laughing, is the death of the project. When he loses his faith in it is probably the lowest point you could ever see.
How does Terry Gilliam feel about "Lost in La Mancha?"
LOUIS PEPE: He says that it takes him a couple of weeks to recover every time he watches it, but that he thinks it's a very good film. He's been very supportive in the promotion of it, too. He says that it would have been more tragic if all of this had happened and no one had been there to make it into a film.
Do you both feel it's important that at least one film came out of this experience? Did Terry Gilliam encourage you to go forward with your film?
LOUIS PEPE: His encouragement helped. Certainly, if he hadn't been behind it, it would have been very difficult to make a film without his film existing. Him saying, "I want you to make this film," ultimately didn't carry as much weight as our investors saying, "What are you going to do about all that money we gave you?"
If you could shadow any other director, who would you choose and why?
KEITH FULTON: That's an impossible question to answer because we don't want to shadow another director (laughing).
LOUIS PEPE: It would be impossible to top "Lost in La Mancha" in terms of a portrait of a director. That would have been like Fellini making another film about a movie director after "8 ½."
KEITH FULTON: Let's say if Fellini were still alive, we'd make a documentary about his next film project.
What would an audience find if they were given a peek at the making of this documentary?
LOUIS PEPE: I think if people saw a behind-the-scenes look at documentary filmmakers it would be very different than what they were expecting. The process of editing a documentary is very similar to the process of writing a fictional script. Even though your footage originates in reality, and those things did happen in front of the camera, the process of editing a documentary... The way we would talk about it was very much like a fictional story. You talk about who your main character is and set them up and develop them and show their conflict and who are your secondary characters and where are the plot strands and where is your emotional climax. It's a part of the documentary filmmaking process that ends up being effaced in the course of making the film. It's probably the thing that we would be most interested in having an audience learn about the documentary process. I think a lot of people look at it and go, "Oh, a documentary. It's the truth. You were there, you turned on the camera." It just isn't like that.
What's next?
LOUIS PEPE: We have a couple of fiction scripts that we're trying to get off the ground. We've always wanted to do both documentary and fiction so we're keeping our eyes open for other good documentary projects. We actually think we may have found…
KEITH FULTON: We have a really deliciously scandalous documentary subject that we may be embarking on.
LOUIS PEPE: Let's put it this way, if you thought that documentary about Michael Jackson was intriguing, then you'll love this one if it gets off the ground. Truth is stranger than fiction.
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"Lost in La Mancha" opened in select cities on January 31, 2003 and is rated R for language. Special thanks to Chris Principio at Landmark Theatres for his work on arranging this interview.
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